More Than a Young Professional

A Podcast by Pensacola Young Professionals

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Episode #5
Changing Careers, Part 1

Show Notes

It’s our first two-part episode! We had so much to stay about changing careers that we couldn’t fit it all into one hour, so we broke it into two!

In today’s working world, it’s more likely that employees will change careers a few times over the course of their professional lives. Now, we aren’t talking about changing jobs, or finding new opportunities in the same industry, we get down to the heart of when it’s time to completely change course and head in a new direction. What makes us qualified to talk about this? All three of your hosts have changed careers in their working life! Find out what Justin, Meg, and Ruthie did before hosting a podcast (and working full time in our current respective industries).

We want to keep this conversation going! Have you changed careers? How did you know it was time to make the jump?

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Episode Transcript


Episode 5 – Changing Careers Pt 1

Meg Rich: The idea that you get a job right out of high school, or right out of college is bonkers and this economy, first of all. But the fact that you would go to a company and then you would stay with that company until you’re 65 and you get your pension and then you’re done.

And I just don’t think that that is something that happens now, at least not often.

Justin Oswald: hey, I am Justin Oswald. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter @ JustinOswald_ underscore.

Ruthie Christie: I’m Ruthie Christie. You can find me on Twitter @RuthieChristie,

Meg Rich: and I am Meg Rich. And you can find me on Instagram @MeganinFL.  You are listening to more than the young professional podcast.

Justin Oswald: That’s right. We all are more than young professionals

Meg Rich: We are more than young professionals.

Justin Oswald: That’s right. You are not what you do.

Meg Rich: Well…..um,

Justin Oswald: so what are we talking about today?

Meg Rich: Today we’re talking about changing careers because I, I think that we have all, all three of us at least changed our career paths. What we started out doing 10, 15 years ago is not what we’re doing now.

Justin Oswald: In fact, this is such a good topic. It’s a two parter

This is part one

I’ve changed careers and listen – it was awesome. Okay. It was awesome.

Meg Rich: All right, Justin, tell me something good.

Justin Oswald: We should have music playing right there. That tell me song. Yeah.

Meg Rich: Okay.

Justin Oswald: Well, we’ll leave that in. Yeah. It’s cool, just keep talking now. That’s fine. Something good? that’s happened to me this week? I’ve been eating more pizza than a human should eat lately. Okay. And it all started cause of YouTube. So I was on YouTube as you do, you know, and you know how just videos pop up. Like in your watch these next or whatever. And y’all know Barstool sports and the guy, Dave Portnoy?

He does those one bite pizza reviews- you don’t I’m talking about? I watched one and I was like, Oh, the pizza looks good. And then the next one, I watched all of them and now I’ve got this insatiable craving for pizza that I can’t get rid of. And I’ve been eating like the last three weeks, more pizza than a human should eat. But it’s been fun.

Meg Rich: That’s good. Do you at least change up where you go? Oh yeah.

Justin Oswald: Change it up. I do frozen pizza. The whole, I just want pizza.

Ruthie Christie: You blog about it.

Justin Oswald: No, but I should. But I don’t, I don’t like your, I don’t like the chain pizzas. I mean, I liked them and I’ll eat them, but I can, we got good pizza here now. I got like sky’s pizza.

Yeah. Graffiti downtown. You got lost pizza on nine miles is decent. You got a. East Hill – East Hill pizza.

Ruthie Christie: I like Tuscan

Justin Oswald: oven

Tuscan oven is good. Yeah. So I’ve been eating a lot of pizza lately and I even liked the refrigerator. It’s not frozen, but like the premade one that’s in, um, world market

Ruthie Christie: Like a take and bake?

Justin Oswald: Yeah. It’s pretty good.

Meg Rich: Do we have a Papa Murphy’s around here?

Justin Oswald: Yeah. I’ve never had one. I feel like you do it. You cook it. That’s why I’m here. Oh, I gotta, now I gotta go home and work. Like, that’s why I came into this establishment, this is bull crap. So

Ruthie Christie: I like that. That is a bright spot

Justin Oswald: pizza. Yeah. I’m telling you. So I’m going to probably eat pizza tonight when we’re done with this.

Meg Rich: Really hungry now.

Justin Oswald: You’re welcome. Oh My God, I forgot. Sorry.

Ruthie Christie: We had pizza last  night at Santinos in Gulf breeze, and now they have cauliflower crust cause we’ve been doing gluten-free.

Meg Rich: Oh man, I got

Ruthie Christie: called two types of gluten free crust, but we tried to call,

Justin Oswald: listen. I think people sleeping on Santino’s. The grinders are good.

Ruthie Christie: That’s what we went for was the grinder until —

Justin Oswald: and I even like Pieology.

Ruthie Christie: Yes.

Justin Oswald: Okay. It’s like subway, but pizzas, like you tell them what you want. They put it all, they put it in the oven and you can eat a whole one. Like that gives you all these I can’t

Meg Rich: bonfire, bonfire. Um, Right next to like target and that target shopping area at nine mile and university.

Justin Oswald: Okay. I think it’s similar, but I’ve never been there.

Ruthie Christie: I haven’t been there.

Justin Oswald: Yeah. These are all local places for everybody. That’s not in Pensacola, but

Meg Rich: although I, for a chain, uh, I love me some Marcos.

Justin Oswald: Marcos is all right.

Meg Rich: I love me some Marcos

Justin Oswald: Pizza Pizza hut’s trash.

Ruthie Christie: Is that the title of this episode?

Meg Rich: Dear pizza hut lawyers, please don’t sue us.

Justin Oswald: No, I, this is America. Okay?

First amendment says, I can say pizza hut is trash. I don’t know what they’re doing. It ain’t pizza sucks.

Meg Rich: I would like to throw it back to my college days because there was a little Caesars on my way home from college, when I lived in Stillwater, Oklahoma, and you bet your bottom dollar, I stopped in and got a $5 hot and ready more than once.

Justin Oswald: Listen, their pizza, not so good. It’s it’s $5 pizza. It’s good for five bucks, right? Yeah, totally.

Totally. It’s good for five bucks, but the breadsticks. Come on somebody. It’s good. I’m really, I’m getting pizza tonight.

Ruthie Christie: I love it.

Meg Rich: Ruthie,  tell me some good.

Ruthie Christie: Okay. So my something good is that the history channel has an app that’s called the vault. And you can do a free trial of it. And if you don’t want to stop after the free trial, it’s only like 4.99 a month. And I know  this because collectively as a family we watched Hamilton when it first came to Disney plus back at the beginning of July. And since then, my wonderful boyfriend, Zach and I have been on this huge presidential binge watch of like, we can not  get enough American history.

And so we branched from Hamilton into- the history channel. Has this series called the ultimate guide to the presidents. It’s awesome. It’s really, really good. Um, and then we ran out of those. So we had to resort to drunk history, which is also awesome.

Meg Rich: Drunk history is amazing.

Ruthie Christie: Highly recommend. Um, not quite to the same caliber as the history channel valt  fantastic  in different ways.

Meg Rich: So the history channel valt is when you drink coffee and the drunk history is when you start in on the wine.

Ruthie Christie: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Justin Oswald: What’s your favorite? Who’s your favorite president?

Ruthie Christie: Uh, Teddy Roosevelt. Hands-down I love Teddy Roosevelt. In fact, now, since this, and now we’re out of everything to watch.

Well, not everything, but we ran out of the ultimate guide to the president and we watched all the drunk history we possibly can. Um, I found a Kindle biography of Teddy Roosevelt. So I am getting into that probably, probably not until next weekend I’m saving it, but I’m really excited at his conservation efforts, national parks and just like getting to learn.

So it moved quickly through it. So I’ll say it’s like, if you’re interested in history, you don’t need the thousand page biography on everybody. This is a great way to go back and recap and get a little bit more perspective on like who these guys were as people. I will say it blew through everyone pretty much after Ronald Reagan. And I don’t know if that’s because these guys are still alive and there’s I don’t know if there’s NDAs or all kinds of stuff  they’re not allowed to talk about it?  But like Bill Clinton was like two minutes where some other guys got like a whole episode.

So yeah, it’s really interesting. And especially if Hamilton did for you, what it did for our family and we’re like group texting each other, all these different presidential facts and stuff, then that is a great place to take your passion and your thirst for knowledge next. Highly recommend. How about you, Meg?

Meg Rich: So, and the same in the same vein, Ben and I have started listening to the office ladies podcast. So it takes, it takes a minute.

Justin Oswald: It does

Meg Rich: I have a love, hate relationship. And I realized that we are doing a podcast and we get off on tangents and no one wants to hear us talk about pizza and the opposite is podcasts, but I don’t want to hear about Jenna Fisher and her view on game of Thrones because she’s never watched it. I don’t, I just, I just don’t. But after you get through that and like they have good guests and things like that. However, we’re caught up on that now. And now we’re listening to Brian Baumgartner’s An Oral History of the Office which is on  Spotify podcasts.

Justin Oswald: Really? Ididn’t  know that.

Meg Rich: It is, it is interesting, cause it’s not episode by episode like the office ladies, but it is like, how did it get made and what were the things that happened to get there and how do they hire the the writers. And how do they hire the actors?

Justin Oswald: Yeah, Phyllis was a casting person.

Meg Rich: She also cannot knit she in the office. Phyllis Vance. She, Phyllis, um, Smith who plays Phyllis Vance actually can’t knit whatsoever. Also Phyllis Vance was a cabaret dancer.

I knew that. I knew that.

Ruthie Christie: Why do we love the office so much?

Justin Oswald: It’s – best show ever.

Meg Rich: You can relate to them. And it’s like, they’re your friends.

Ruthie Christie: Is that what it is? Because I know kids in high school that loved the office. Like you’ve never worked in an office, like, is this funny because we’ve been in jobs that are like this?

Justin Oswald: My brother just graduate high school,  him and his friends watch it. They love it, but it’s phenomenal.

Ruthie Christie: I wonder what it is. They cracked the code though. I’ll tell you what, because I mean, I say that having watched the office multiple times and

Justin Oswald: I’m a three time office trivia champion.

Ruthie Christie: I watched it while I was knitting and I would- and I love to knit. And that was like part of our living in Colorado in the snow, like I’m sitting home knitting.

Justin Oswald: So you’re knitting watching about the presidents.

Ruthie Christie: Well, not here. It’s hard to knit in Florida, in the summer, it’s not as enjoyable. Colorado in the winter time. We were like, I want to hat. It’s very motivating .

Meg Rich: Because you’re making your own blanket.

Ruthie Christie: Yeah. Like for my lap and the bigger I knit, like the happier I am.

Justin Oswald: We have this thing with some of my friends here around our office.

We figure out who’s who from the office, like you’re like this person and a lot of people are combinations. I shouldn’t have even said that. Cause then I’m going to ask. I don’t like it. I didn’t even think. They say I’m a combination of Andy and Robert California.

Meg Rich: So many questions these say about this, but yes.

Justin Oswald: Right? I mean, I get it. I do get it.

Ruthie Christie: I like that. What an interesting mix of people.

Justin Oswald: Moving on. All right.

Ruthie Christie: All right.

Meg Rich: We’re talking today about changing careers. Um, cause like I said before, we’ve all done it.

Justin Oswald: We’ve all done it. And if you haven’t done it, you’re going to do it. Yeah, I would certainly.

Meg Rich: Yeah. I mean, we’re, we’re not really in a world anymore where you get your first job straight out of high school or out of college and you stay with that job and a pension until you retire at 65.

Justin Oswald: No, that’s, that sounds absolutely dreadful.

Meg Rich: Not disagreeing with that.

Justin Oswald: Reader’s digest. How did we all end up in the careers? We have Ruthie you’re first.

Ruthie Christie: Oh boy. Okay. I wound up in the career I have, which is currently in a really fabulous nonprofit called the Pensacola Young Professionals.

Justin Oswald: Hey Oh!

Ruthie Christie: And I came in into this career largely through community involvement.

So I was, you know, like a career service industry person for a long time restaurants and childcare. And then after graduate school had the great fortune to work for an amazing company doing coaching and consulting. And that was really fulfilling in a lot of different ways. Mostly because I had the opportunity to stay engaged in my community and serve my community.

And so when the opportunity came about to make, basically make community service my full time job, it was kind of a no brainer. So I will say that it was like series of serendipitous events versus I set a goal and worked in a straight line A to B. I don’t usually do that. So that’s not how how I came to be here. So if that’s what you do good on you.

And I know people that worked really well for, but I am much more of like a arcs and circles  type of driver?

I love it. And I feel grateful and blessed to be in the role that I’m in. Especially since it wasn’t like a. I put, I plugged the destination into the GPS and then let it guide me there. Like it’s still, still going.

What about you, Meg? How did you come to be in the career where you are?

Meg Rich: So I actually, am one of those people who set a goal and, completely changed my life upside down because I wanted to achieve that goal. I did well, I’ve changing gears a couple of times.

So I did fundraising and development for a couple of nonprofits. I’m plugging Habitat for Humanity again, because I just absolutely love them. But I basically begged for money for a living. I don’t know if you’ve ever done that for a living.  It can get really tiresome and you can burn out really quick.

So I moved to Florida.

Justin Oswald: What does that mean though? You begged for money?

Meg Rich: I was the development director. So I did all their fundraising and annual giving and all of that. Um, it turns out I’m real bad at it. Uh, in fact, I can plan an amazing event and raise money that way. But if you just ask me to go sit in a CEO’s office and ask them for money, I’m not good at that at all.

So when I moved Florida, I tried to find nonprofit jobs again, and I’m just. I wasn’t finding what I wanted. And so I was like, I have to degree in marketing, let me see what I can do in marketing. And I did marketing for awhile.  I was actually, um, I was a produce broker, so I worked with small farmers and I got their produce in stores like Walmart and Winn-Dixie and some of the smaller grocery stores around here.

Which was really cool. And then that was grant funded and the grant was cut and I didn’t do that anymore. And then I actually did like corporate marketing for a business broker here in town. And then I remember sitting at my desk and I was on my N-teenth presentation- marketing presentation, and I like laid my head down on my desk and I was like, I hate what I’m doing. This is not what I signed up for. So I was volunteering with the Pensacola Young Professionals at the time, and I kind of started researching careers and what I was good at: it was directing things and it was making things happen and planning things. And turns out that telling people what to do and being OCD with project plans has a career and it’s called project management.

So, I decided that I wanted to get my PMP, which was the project management professional certification. And I found an organization that would hire me without that, and would teach me and mentor me to get that certification. And here I am. I’m still with that organization and have my PMP, which if, if anybody out there has any project management questions and would like to talk about it, I live and breathe this career and this industry.

Ruthie Christie: Love it. What about you, Justin?

Justin Oswald: Well, you know, I never wanted, I never wanted to be doing what I’m doing cause I never thought it was a thing, you know, it’s like I’d never set out to do so. I’m the executive pastor of a church.

Um, I don’t know. I love it. I love it. Um, I started out in sales at a very young age, started, you know, in high school, selling fake Rolexes, you know, to just people like it was like entrepreneur working for myself. That’s what I used to say. Yeah.

Meg Rich: Statute of Limitations I don’t know what that is. So replica.

Justin Oswald: Yeah. Anyways, so now I did that kind of thing. And then I, the first job I actually had was, um, I sold RVs. You know, and I did that for years. Um, and I, I fell in love with sales and I went to college for, for marketing because I was like the closest thing. It was like sales management was, I don’t know if they still do sales manager, but that was the major.

Yeah. Then it was a marketing in the marketing department and I was like working at the same time in sales. I loved it. So it was like, you know, college is lame, you know, I’m like doing this for a living already, what are they teaching me? Nothing. That’s what I thought. I was kind of right. Kind of wrong.

And then I kinda changed out of that. Always kind of stayed in sales, just in different industries. Sales and kind of management. And then, when I started going to church and started doing what you do is you plug in and you start serving and you know, just like you do at any organization you believe in. Like you mentioned your, you know, the one you like and all that, just serving and at some point you start realizing that you have some gifts and then somebody noticed the gifts and then there’s a need and you know, that type of thing.

So it was a big change. I never, I never thought you, I never thought this was a thing that you can do, you know? And I liked the fact that I could use in my role as the executive pastor that was kind of like running the day to day of the church, the operations- you’re in charge of operations and finance and the staff and all these things.

So very much satisfies the business thing that’s in me that I like to do and I get to do that. Cause I’m not the preacher. I’m not the, you know, I don’t have to, I don’t do all that. I do kind of more the “business side”, which I really enjoy, you know, but I get to do that now and serve people and all that.

So, so it’s a lot of fun. I just didn’t know it was a thing. And how I got here- I didn’t grow up in church or anything like that. So it was just, it was just kind of crazy turn of events. And here we are living the dream. Eating pizza.

Ruthie Christie: I really liked that you said that about not realizing your job was a thing.

I think. Um, so like my background, you guys know is in industrial organizational psychology and we rely in some of the coursework that I did, on a website that’s curated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics called ONET. And if you haven’t hung out on ONET, it’s really interesting. It’s O*NET and it basically, it, it used to be this dictionary of occupations and now it’s online.

So it’s the online dictionary of occupations and it’s fascinating. It’s all linked together. It’s very like basic website it’s government run website, but it explains different job titles and you can find stuff on like the median salary for this job. And what kind of qualifications, how long have to it’s been in school, like all kinds of – it’s like a definition of this job, the knowledge, skills, abilities, and other characteristics you need to do it correctly. And then what it’s related to. There’s also an interesting thing where it will have like “bright outlook”. Like selling solar panels has a bright outlook because that’s a trend that we’re moving in that direction.

Selling phone books might not have a bright outlook. Like we’re moving away from that direction. There’s also a little indicator if it’s like an environmentally friendly job, like a little green leaf, so it’s really-

Meg Rich: So I actually just iooked this up cause I have my laptop in front of me. Um, I could do a wind energy project manager. It is eco.

Ruthie Christie: So there you go. So if you’re interested or you think like, is this a job? Is this something, so it’s almost like a reverse way to search where you’re like, all right, I have these skills or I conceivably will have these skills or this background, like what is out there?

Because I think growing up, I know that like, I felt like I could be a teacher, a nurse, a president, a doctor like the sky is the limit, but like, you don’t know, there are so many jobs to do. You don’t even know what they all are.

Justin Oswald: I mean, that brings a conversation. I mean like high school does a terrible job of preparing kids.

It doesn’t, I don’t think it, and this is my opinion, you know, I, it doesn’t help you figure out what you like enough and what careers exist and not to mention the world is changing so fast that there’s jobs that exist now that didn’t exist four years ago.  So it’s like, that kind of thing is cool, you know?

All you know, all these kids know is like you asked, you know, two out of every three kids will tell you, they want to be like a YouTube star, you know, but there’s no, you know, col high, school’s not teaching kids. They’re putting pressure to pick a major. You’re going to college, pick a major, pick a major.

Meg Rich: Which is terrible. It’s terrible. At 18. You have no idea. Yeah.

Justin Oswald: My little, my little brother’s gone to that. Now. He just got into university of Florida and yeah. He’s like, yeah, like a 4.8. He’s like. So super smart. Um, he’s super book-smart, you know, um, and he’s picking like aerospace engineer, but he’s, but he’s like, he’s like, I don’t know what I want to do when I get out.

Like, I don’t want to sit at a computer and be in code all day and do, I was like, so why’d you pick that? He’s like, well, just to sounds, you know, and it’s like helping people figure out what they want to do. And then, and then I think we live in such a world now where. You may go make your own way. Maybe what you want to do doesn’t exist right now, or, um, but I think this is kind of cool.

What you’re saying. You can figure out, you can just like what you did. Like you, you got tired of, you were at a job that was like, you felt was going nowhere and you use like plug into Google are like this, this, this, then you start figuring it out. You know, like, I think that’s great. Yeah. And then you went after it, like yeah.

Is that the whole, every conversation, that’s a whole different conversation of going after that, you know, I mean, it takes courage and, you know, you gotta overcome fears and then like all those things, like, but, but, uh, that, that that’s great.

Meg Rich: Yeah. I also think that. Yeah. The, the idea that you get a job right out of high school, or right out of college is bonkers and this economy, first of all. But the fact that you would go to a company and then you would stay with that company until you’re 65 and you get your pension and then you’re done.

And I just don’t think that that is something that happens now, at least not often.

Ruthie Christie: Yeah, it’s true. It is definitely less common. I think it’s interesting now, if you just look at like who’s in the workforce that isn’t really just like viable anymore. That  a accompany could count on someone and that, you know, the other side of that coin is that like, Millennials and younger are not loyal and all those like stigmas that get assigned to us, but it’s really about like, people will follow opportunity, right?

Like you want to know that if you’re coming in, most people, if like you’re coming into a job, you want to know how you’re going to progress in that job. Because a lot of people like, whatever job you’re starting with, I know for me, That is not what I dreamed of being when I was a little girl, like, this is not where I want to stay, so I need to know how I’m going to move up here.

Justin Oswald: What’s the track? Like what, what are the opportunities?

Ruthie Christie: What’s the career progression? How do you work around my other, my community involvement, you know, and I think that is what people definitely our age and younger are using to make decisions about where they go to work and why that whole, like, we have to crack the millennial code from an organization standpoint.

Comes back to like, it really, isn’t always even just about salary.  That’s important, don’t get me wrong, but what else, you know, the flexible hours and benefits and things like that.

Justin Oswald: A lot of, lot of millennials are, are taking less salary for freedom. They’ll go somewhere making less money to have to have free, you know, a little more freedom.

And, you know, and, and then now you add in COVID. I mean, you add in what COVID is done. How many businesses are rethinking having offices at all?

Ruthie Christie: So many.

Justin Oswald: Like, and I get it, like, I think it’s great. And I think there’s an aspect of it. That’s great. But like, you know, how many, how many companies just spend tons of money just on rent so they can, house their employees that sit on a computer.

Ruthie Christie: Right. When they could be sitting at home on that same-,

Justin Oswald: on that same computer. You know, and, and deploy that money into the, the people or, or whatever, you know, but, um, I, the idea of going to a company back then the pension was the, was the hook. Those don’t exist anymore. For the most part, you know, it’s like, you’re, the loyalty is and blind loyalty.

You’re getting something for the loyalty. And if, you know, I kind of hate that conversation. Like the stigma on millennials is like, they’re not, it’s like loyal. What, like.

Meg Rich: Yeah. I mean, cause if you tell me that you appreciate me as a, as an organization, if you tell me you appreciate me and that you put all of this responsibility on me, if I were to say fall really ill and I had to have a surgery, that’s going to take me out for three weeks?

You’re going to find somebody to put right back in there. You are. And if, and if it wasn’t for, you know, the FMLA for the family medical leave act, Would you hire me back if I had to take a month leave?

Justin Oswald: No. And here’s the deal. And maybe this is me speaking as a believer that I have a path. Like I have a higher calling.

I have, you know, you can throw the word destiny, like, you know, and sometimes you do things cause you feel led to, or, and sometimes just things change, you know? And that if I feel like I’m, if I feel like the right thing for me to do is go over here. Yeah. Whether it’s a different company, a different industry, to label that disloyal is stupid.

That’s just, that’s not disloyalty. Like I’m following my path. I’m doing what’s right for me or my family, you know, it’s like the loyalty, that’s just a such weird. Where did that even come? Like what does that even mean? Like you, you’re supposed to be loyal to your spouse. You’re supposed to be loyal to your friends.

Like, but sometimes these companies like want to act like- because you hired me, I’ve got to give you the rest of my life. And maybe there’s things like you just said, like what happens? You know, especially if it’s a bottom line thinking company, they don’t have sometimes the worker’s best interest in mind to start with, you know. It’s a bottom line, you know, but I know a lot of companies have great culture and they, you know, give, give people time to go volunteer and all these things.

And I think that’s changing. I think, I think that’s been forced a little bit by some of the younger, well, we’re not younger anymore, some of us that’s millennials, we’re getting old. You know what I’m saying? Millennials are not young kids anymore, but I think it’s kind of forced some of these culture changing companies.

I think it’s great because what we saw was our parents, or, you know, we saw that they you’d give your life to someone and then the economy crash, or you realize they were dipping on pension or whatever. And then they lose everything.

Meg Rich: And I think that, you know, especially with the internet, there are more ways to find, find what you want to do, but also provide that service to others.

So, you know, if I wanted to, I could do complete project management consulting and never have to set foot in another organization. As an employee, I would be a contractor, but I would not be as an employee if I so choose. I mean, I don’t because I love where I am right now, but at the same time, I don’t have to have someone employ me. I don’t have to have a W2. I don’t have to have those types of things to make a living anymore. And I think that that has really changed the way that organizations look at things.

Justin Oswald: Well, I think it’s fantastic that people can do that. I mean the gig economy, right? I mean, You know, you, if you have a, if you’re handy, I mean, you can go to the back of Walmart and throw a pallet in the back of your car and go home and make something and then sell it on Etsy or the Facebook marketplace.

Like that’s what a time to be alive. Right. You know?  And I know for like a couple hundred dollars for a free pallet that you picked up on the side of the road, you know, like that is incredible to me. And you take that or people that flip stuff on, on eBay or grow like that alone. Yeah. Because the internet exists.

I think that’s phenomenal or well, you just said you’ve built a skill now that there’s a market for it. You know, you can consult like I think that, I think that’s phenomenal. And at that makes us as young professionals and millennials, if it’s for someone to look down on that, it’s like, I think that’s, you’re imposing-.

You’re imposing a previous world on us that a world that doesn’t exist anymore. And that’s incorrect for you to do that.

Meg Rich: Yeah. And I think that also it’s, I, you know, and anybody, if whoever wants to go out and find that pallet and make it into this really great thing, they probably have a passion for that.

Yeah. Could they find their passion or normal employer situation? Maybe not. And if they can, what stipulations are going to be stifled on their creativity? That they wouldn’t be able to do whatever they wanted to do. They’d have to follow, you know, tow the company line, so to speak. Um, so I think that it’s really great to find those things that you’re really passionate about and then be able to go find and do your passion.

Justin Oswald: Do y’all think there’s a negative aspect to this?  What do you think of getting bored easy or things like that that makes people just dip out on a company or want to change careers. Like I’m just bored so I’m going to go. And then you go over a couple of years, you get bored with that like that’s not necessarily the healthiest thing.

Meg Rich: I think that. If you are finding that you are bored in your job, you’re not being challenged and you’re not finding your passion. And that’s something that you have to take onto yourself to find what ignites that fire inside of you. And changing careers is the best way to do that.

Justin Oswald: Well, I just think about, you think of, think of marriage, right? How many people are so willing to throw how quickly some people are willing to throw in the towel on a marriage. Whether it’s out of and just onto the next thing, you know, to do it to the marriage, to, to career. At some point there’s a level of this that’s probably not the healthiest. If you’re, like you said, if you’re, if you haven’t taken a little bit and add some introspection and say, why am I bored? And you just dip out every time you get bored with something like, that’s not really, that’s not really effective either. I don’t think, but I totally agree with you.

Meg Rich: Yeah. And I think it is that introspection and that self awareness and finding yourself. I mean, I’ve been pretty open with you guys and, with our listeners that you know, about six, six years ago, I started a journey of self reflection. And I mean, that’s exactly what it was. And that’s what caused me to change my career because I determined that what I was doing, wasn’t serving me and it wasn’t making me my best  self.

So I jump ship. I mean, luckily I was in a position where I could jump into another ship. I didn’t have to jump overboard and be unemployed for a while and those types of things, but it’s- it’s scary. And, but I had that self reflection of I’m not happy where I am. I need to change this.

Ruthie Christie: Do you think that it was like a series of small moments, the culminated or for you, like in your experience, was there one big moment like you said when you put your head down on your desk, had that been like, was that the first time you felt like I don’t belong here? Or what was that like?

Meg Rich: No, it was, it was a series of moments and it was a series of, you know, we talked last episode about how Justin doesn’t have any feelings. I prefer not to have any feelings either. But it was that internal. This, it was, it was a gut reaction of this isn’t right. And I could have continued on in my career and been fine and I probably would have been successful. And, but it would not have felt right. And it would always be this distinction of here is my work life that I put on a face and I put on a mask to go do.

And here is my actual life that I’m trying to make happen when I have to shift on a moment’s notice. And it was just that gut feeling and it was right then it was, I just, I remember I remember what I was doing and I, it was a, I can’t do this anymore and thrive.

Justin Oswald: Yeah. And I think what you’re talking about is it’s more than a job.

You know, I think some people or person in our lives could have the mindset of it’s work. It’s a job I’m not supposed to love it. It’s work. You go to it’s because you have it’s a means to an end type thing.  But what you’re talking about, which I think is great:  you would have been being untrue to yourself, like you said, it’s  not me, this isn’t right.

There’s something fraud-like that’s making me do this.  I don’t think everyone thinks that way. Number one, I think some of that’s your personality type.  I think we see more and more of that now, especially in the millennial generation younger. It’s like  we want to belong to something that’s bigger than ourselves.  We want to be contributors, not just like consumers or I show up to do something. It’s like what I do contributes to something greater. You know, and if you’re at a job doing marketing, just cause you have a degree in it and it feels like this is not what I do or a fundraiser or whatever.

It’s like, no, I want to be telling people what to do and making plans or whatever, whatever it is that you do.

Meg Rich: I am really good at being the boss.

Justin Oswald: I think that’s great. And I think more and more people, one if should think that way. Number one, that’s just my opinion. Um, as a three, who’s similar to an eight and some of those regards it’s like, go, go out there and get it.

The world exists now with the internet. Like there’s no excuse to be that unhappy in a job in my opinion. But I also know it’s hard to just up and change, change jobs, especially with Covid and all that. Let’s look kind of a pre COVID talk, I guess, but, man, it’s you work so much, you spend so much time doing it you should like it. Right?

Meg Rich: And I think, I think that, you know, for me, it’s that passion, you know, I, my, why my personal, why, as I said before, is I want to help people. Well, how do I do that? I’m not, we’re really good at taking big plans and big ideas and breaking them down and getting tangible results out of that so that people can do that.

I realize that not everybody thinks like me. Goodness knows. Not everyone thinks like I do. And thank goodness for that. Because I’m crazy, but at the same, totally. I also

I’m a little crazy. at the same time, I sought that out. You know, I knew that what I was doing was not helping people in the way that I wanted to and the way I knew I was best at. And so I think  finding  that passion I think is really, really important.

Ruthie Christie: So that makes, let me think a couple of things- to your point, Justin.

Yeah, that was basically, you just stated the thesis of my like statement of purpose for graduate school. Everyone I know has to work. Well might as well do work that is important to us. It was a little bit wordier than that, but that was the idea.

Yeah. But that was, the idea what are we doing to make work better? If everyone has to do it, and this is what we’re spending the majority of our lives doing, then how are we connecting to people’s passions? Because usually your passions, usually, line up with what you’re good at. And when you’re doing things you’re not good at, you know, you’re not being as effective as you could be.

And when you are doing things, you are really good at it, energizes you and you feel good and you feel motivated. You want to come back, you want to do it. And so  lining up your work with what you’re good at is- I feel different ways about it now. I don’t think, I feel,  different ways about it because on the one hand just like we were saying, like, we came of age when the economy crashed and you were lucky to have a job, it didn’t matter if it was sweeping at the grocery store or delivering pizza or working in an office or whatever.

We were grateful to have a job and make ends meet. I think if you made it through that and same thing now, right? Like, COVID – if you have a job, like maybe you hate it, but you’re just trying to hang tight. Like there’s enough change going on in the world. There’s enough uncertainty, maybe this is the last thing that you should be doing is  yanking your own income out from under yourself. So I think that for anyone who’s listening, Meg, you said something really important. Is it like you have to know yourself well, enough first. That you can’t just like have a bad day at work and jump ship and then now you’ve put yourself in a more compromised situation, mentally, physically, emotionally, like hierarchy of needs wise, but you have to know yourself well enough to, first of all, know your strengths to know that if they’re not being utilized, and then to know your risk aversion, right?  Is this worth it to me to change this fundamental what I’m doing day every day on the chance that I could be more effective or happier or help more people going into something else.

So I’m kinda curious, Justin  For you, was it more of a, like, I feel like Meg you almost like push yourself out of your last job. You were like, I tried and tried and tried and now like I’m getting out of here and you pushed, but I almost feel like Justin for you is almost more like you were pulled, like you got involved heard the call.

Justin Oswald: Definitely.  I don’t want to turn this podcast into like a- I know there’s many belief systems out there. As a Christian, I think that once, you know, I started going to church and being a believer and all those things, there is a call everyone, there’s a call on your life to do something.

And I felt a call to ministry. And I don’t know what that meant early on. You know, I was thinking, you know, I was serving in student ministry or youth ministry. So I was like, Oh, maybe I’m just called to be a youth pastor not, and I wasn’t.  I’ve figured out a way to use my gifts and I made myself valuable to the organization I was a part of at the time. Which was the church I served in, you know, I, I just, I had a job, you know, and at one point, I mean, I think it’s important to say, like, if you need a job, like don’t miss hear some of what we’re saying about you go be happy and leave you-

like, if you, sometimes you do, there’s a means to an end, like, if sometimes you may need to go get the job at McDonald’s to make sure your kids are fed for a little bit or whatever. The fact, like I got laid off from a job and I didn’t work from us a year and it was very difficult, you know, trying to find it.

And then the job, I got a job in home healthcare, which they advertise it as a sales job. But it wasn’t, I was in an office, you know, I kind of like inside say, quote, unquote, dealing with, you know, we, we did like oxygen and sea paps and stuff, you know, um, hated it because I don’t like to help the health. I realized the healthcare industry is kind of jacked up when I worked there, but, um, I took the job because I needed a job and it fit within some of my give sets, you know, but, um, at the same time that all is happening.

I’m at the church, every chance I can get I’m working with teenagers and youth ministry and I’m learning and I’m, and I’m just serving, you know, and then I started making unaware some, but I was making myself valuable to the organization that when the, the pastor the head of that organization says, you know, we have needs here this person fits them. A job offer was made. And I think that’s what you have to do. It’s like sometimes, sometimes maybe what you want. You know, you have to just make yourself, make yourself valuable to it, you know? So there was to answer kind of your question. It was a calling, but I don’t know if that, I don’t know what that meant.

I didn’t go around saying I’m going to be an executive pastor and let me go put applications in for that.  I wanted, I wanted to kind of be in this world. And I had certain gifts and then a position was kind of formed around the gift set and the need of the organization.

But I think we all have that. The reason I think we all have that is because I think that whether you believe in God or not, he may believe in you.  I think that the calling exists on a lot of people, even if you’re not acknowledging what it is, you know, people will use, you know, in the secular world, I have a destiny or a purpose and that’s all fine and good.

I think it’s something beyond that because I’m a believer.  I think that we all have that and you don’t have to be in a church setting to do that at all. In fact, you couldn’t make the argument that you could do more ministry in the workplace and effect, you know, it’s like, there’s a, there’s a saying as a quote from, I think it was like Martin Luther or somebody, not Martin Luther King, but like Martin Luther is the, the Christian shoemaker’s duty is not to sew little crosses on all the shoes it’s to make good shoes, you know?

So sometimes as Christians, we’re more valuable in the marketplace impacting the people you work with on a day to day basis. Not “becoming a pastor”. You know what I’m saying? So I don’t know if that answered the question. It was a call, but I think we all have that. I do want to be fulfilled. Now, if I, even if the church, if I was still working in the church, but doing something that was outside of my, my gift set and calling, I would still feel unfulfilled and wouldn’t want to do it. So it has nothing to do in my working in the church, in ministry, I’m using air quotes like it has to do with  I’m being fulfilled in what I’m doing and I just happened to be right now serving in a church and I love it. And I think it’s part of the plan that God has for my life.

Ruthie Christie: That kind of leads me to my next question about that moment when, you know, because there’s the saying that you don’t quit your job, you quit your boss. And so when we’re talking about a career change, I think that sometimes that might be more apparent, like this restaurant manager is terrible. I’m going to work in a different restaurant. It doesn’t require a career change. But in these cases, like in y’alls experiences, was that part of it? Or was it really just like, you’ve got to have the best boss in the world you just knew, or the best company in the world that wrong role, but something. What do you think about that? Part of it?

Justin Oswald: I don’t agree with the statement from my life in my, in my past. Oh yeah. When you’re talking to changing careers, changing jobs, I get it. That makes sense. Um, you know, I sold, I sold RVs at an RV dealership. I could have went to another one. And sometimes you only do that for a few things.

You you’re, you know, whether you’re you think your boss is a jerk or it’s a, you know what it is. I do agree with the statement. You quit your boss, changing careers. I don’t know that. I don’t know. I think of it that way. At least in my experience, it had to do with. More of me wanting something else. I wanted to do something else or, and all that.

So I don’t know. That’s just my opinion.

Meg Rich: No, I would, I would agree with that. Um, I, if I wanted to do more marketing, like if that was my passion, then that would, that may have been the case, but I didn’t. Um, so, you know, I could have had the best marketing J boss in the world. And I still wouldn’t have filled fulfilled the old fulfilled.

Justin Oswald: Now, the only thing I would ask about that to you is, is it not possible that had you found the skill or the thing of project management and could use it in a marketing setting?  If you, if there was a team of marketers and you all did marketing. And you said I don’t like marketing anymore, but I feel like I’m good at this and your boss saw it and says, look, why don’t you stop doing marketing? And you project manage the marketing of this- is that I think with some people that’s possible, maybe not in your situation.

Meg Rich: In my situation, I don’t think it, it was, um, just the. It it’s, it’s weird because the pressure that I felt in marketing to perform and produce results was very, very stressful for me and I never felt like I fully got it. I never got my hands around it. But project management, I had my hands around it. Love it. It is a new challenge. It is stressful. I love- I feed off of that stress sometimes, but I don’t think it, I don’t think it would have been any different if I had a really great boss in marketing, who said, I’m going to transition to project management.

Justin Oswald: Begs the question is, is project management, like right now you work in the banking industry as a project manager.

Could you be just as happy in a completely different industry, still doing project management?

Meg Rich: Yes, because project management is transferable across most industries.

Justin Oswald: It’s like some sales guys, whether you’re selling RVs or replica, Rolexes, you’re happy. Right?

Meg Rich: Yeah. Project management has a bunch of systems and processes to have.

Justin Oswald: You’re not in love. You don’t love the industry. You love the thing you do.

Meg Rich: Correct. I’m just very fortunate and that I do like the industry.

Ruthie Christie: And so I am thinking through these things. So if anyone who is listening, who is considering… like you’re on the precipice, you’re on the fence. Then, like maybe  just think about those things. Like, Is it your role that you’re not happy with, but you love your organization? I’ve been there. Is it your boss that you’re not happy with, but maybe there’s someone else you could work directly under. Maybe it’s just straight up I don’t believe in the health care system as it currently stands and I have got to get out of here. It doesn’t matter if I’m the CEO or the intern. This is not the place for me. So I would just, that was kind of my thought process there and asking those questions.

Meg Rich: Ruthie, actually, you introduced me to a way of thinking.

Um, and I have, I’ve actually used it while, like, Interviewing people. So, um, to determine if they might be a good fit, um, that you told me about the five why’s and when you told me about it, I rolled my eyes and I was like, that’s overkill. I don’t want to spend time doing it. And then I did it and I was like, this is genius.

So can you tell all of our listeners about the five why’s? Sure.

Ruthie Christie: So, and I’m so glad it’s helpful.  The five why’s is a continuous improvement strategy where you really just want to get to like the heart of the heart and the root of the root, like why anything, so whatever it is.

So in this case case: someone makes a statement I hate my job.

Why do you hate your job? Well, my boss is terrible.

Why do you feel like your boss is terrible? They never listen to me.

Why is it important for you to feel listened to or like whatever direction that thought process leads you in? I’d be really curious to hear how you used it in an interview, but the idea is that by the time you’ve asked why five times you’ve probably gotten down into some deeper, bigger you’ve moved past the symptoms and started to address the real issue. Or you move past the surface level and started to address really what is motivating the end or triggering a situation. So. Not breaching any like HR policies. Can you share with, us, like,

Meg Rich: I mean, I’ve used it for a couple of different things, even in volunteer roles.

Um, if somebody comes to me and says, I want this position. Yeah. I always

Justin Oswald: ask

Meg Rich: why do you want this position? Because I have an interest in this. Well, why? Because I’m good at this. Why do you think you’re good at this? Cause that, that peels back the onion layers of, you know, why do you think you’re good at this?

What, what have you done to demonstrate that you’re good at this? And why should I hire you for it? And so, I mean, I feel like that’s all interviews are, is just an elaborate five why’s

Ruthie Christie: Oh, that’s interest. So you’re using this true dialogue to be like, yeah, To like, almost like burden of proof on this other person

Meg Rich: also to make that person actually think, you know, I see this position and I want to be in this position, but why have you really thought about that?

Are you just applying for this position because you’re trying to run from something else? Do you have real passion in it.

Ruthie Christie: Or were you in passing like, Oh, that sounds interesting. I’ll just go talk about it real quick. I’m like, did you really mean it like actually. Committed. Did I tell you guys this story?

The first time I got asked the five why’s?

Meg Rich: Uh, I have heard the story, but I think our listeners would love to hear the story.

Ruthie Christie: So I don’t know. I’m sorry if I already talked about this, but I was like 17 and I wanted to get like multiple ear piercings. I wanted to get my ear pierced, like four times down on the same side or something like that.

And one of my like mentors, friend of the family really amazing awesome lady was basically just like exactly what you did. Like. And not in a judgy older person, you’re stupid for wanting that kind of way. Just genuinely curious, slash concerned. Like, why do you want to do that to your ear? And I said, Oh, I think it looks cool.

And like, well, Why? The implied message was, you’re gonna put yourself through pain for and possible infection and like something and you’re gonna have to take care of for a long time. And it’s gonna like, like it or not, it sends a message, like all this stuff. And without saying any of that or telling me why her opinion on any of it, she really helped me think through why do I want not just like, Oh, that’s cool.

I’m going to go do it. But like, Why? And I ended up not doing it. So thank you, ms. Elena for running interference.

Justin Oswald: I mean, I have to say, the whole practice is good. I mean, if you’re considering kind of going back to what you started with, if you’re out there listening and considering like a career change, I think you’ve got to figure out even like what the boss thing maybe.

Maybe you just, you and your boss don’t know each other. Well, maybe he’s, maybe it goes back to like our previous episode, some of that talk, you know, of like gratitude, maybe. I don’t know. Sometimes it’s like, it’s a, it’s a good practice to dissect exactly what, why you’re making this decision, you know? And, and, and don’t put yourself in any type of, like, I know at least me and Meg, we’ve kind of made it sound like we just nonchalantly, flowed through one career to another and left one and it just worked out perfect.

And it, maybe it does, but you know, like, It gets you something lined up before you go ahead and dip out on the current paycheck, you know? And, um, but I think examining know what you’re after, you know, I was thinking like the why for your interview. It’s like, in my context, people love a title, and it’s like, I want this.

Are you just, you know, cause. It’s about serving people, you know, not the title, you know, and it’s sometimes, and it’s harder to take away a title from someone it’s much easier to give it, you know? So like we try to be slow at giving the title. Um, cause with last thing, it’s hard to take hard to take it away, but it’s, if you’re out there thinking of changing careers, it’s like when I did it, it was.

No, this is all the stuff I think about though. Like nonstop. I have dissected at every way. It’s like, is my boss truly crappy? Or do I just wish he treated me different?  Or whatever, you know, it’s like looking at the industry is the industry that I’m looking at, going to, you know, if you’re, if it’s a phone book company, going back to what you said earlier, like if it’s a phone book company, that’s probably not a good move.

I think we can be quick to make decisions and jump and make these big changes because it’s new and it’s fresh and it’s different. Look at every angle because easy to talk about, like, we didn’t do that, but we did.

Ruthie Christie: I think it also gives some peace of mind. Like if you go through like use this little exercise and you go through this process, whatever you decide, like if you decide: I’m ready to make this move, then you’ve thought through it. And if someone comes along and challenges you there, it’s going to be a lot harder to shake that decision down when you have for your own self, like plumbed the depths and thought through this. And then if you decide to stay, you’ve probably uncovered some areas that you could either control, hopefully can control, like either how you are communicating or you were bringing a possible solution because it’s not so bad that I have to go.

Like, I know it’s just how I’m being treated. In this particular circumstance, maybe I can do something to help mitigate that from happening. And then eventually, if it is the right thing to leave, then you will know that you have done your due diligence and really thought through for yourself, like what is the best move?

Justin Oswald: So what about the person that’s listening that says, I know I’m supposed to change. I know this needs to happen and can’t take the step.

Meg Rich: Hmm. I mean, I. I would, I would ask that person a lot of questions, uh, because I, I would want to, and I would want to know their five why’s. You know, if, if somebody had come to me and said, I’m ready to do this, I am done, I can’t do this anymore.

I would talk to them about why. And have they explored other options or are they just jumping ship? Because they think that there’s a difference. And you know, like we’ve talked about, you know, being, having a bad boss or anything like that, there’s a difference between not wanting to do what you’re doing and wanting to do something else.

Justin Oswald: It’s true. That’s good.

Meg Rich: And I would want them to. Explore what that something else is, because it might be what they’re doing in a different context.

Justin Oswald: Now, what about, what about the person that’s done all that, but is the safety of where they’re at, can’t make the leap? Or the fear of the unknown. Like I know I’m supposed to leave, I’ve done the work I’ve done. I’ve asked myself 10, why’s forget your five, you know, and it’s like, I’ve done all that, but you know, it’s gonna be hard for you to answer as an eight. Cause you don’t think that way because neither do I.

Ruthie Christie: So I would say, make your game plan act like you are in the way that like put it on paper, you know, play through the scenario in your head role, play the conversation with your boss.

Role-play submitting your two weeks notice. Go to that space. Because it sounds like what you’re talking about is it’s either a place of Insecurity, meaning like financial insecurity, you can’t quit or you won’t be able to pay your bills or fear. And either one of those things, I would say like preparation will like when the time does come, like either you can’t take it at all or you’ve saved enough money or something like the-it becomes so painful that you cannot let this persist, like you absolutely must change it. Then having that preparation in place is going to ease your anxiety. So like make your game plan, put it on paper, tell it to a trusted friend. Like not someone in your organization.

That’s what I say.

Justin Oswald: Fear and insecurity and I also think there’s something to just people being complacent. Complacent and just kind of.

Ruthie Christie: Oh, people are very comfortable being miserable.

Justin Oswald: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like, I think there’s, I think there’s a lot of people out there that have great plans. I mean, great plans, great purpose in their life and never, um, a mountain.

Meg Rich: It’s fear and it’s overcoming that fear and that’s, that’s tough.

And I think that, I think that’s a really good place to stop because in part two, we will talk about how. Yes, because now we’ve convinced you that you need to either stay or leave.

Justin Oswald: Should

Meg Rich: I

Justin Oswald: stay or

Ruthie Christie: should I go now?

Meg Rich: No one wants to hear us sing, but in part two, we will talk about how to go about changing careers.

Justin Oswald: That’s right.

Ruthie Christie: Tune in next time

Meg Rich: Tune the next

time. –  I love our Wheel of Questions cause I think we get to know each other really well. So I am going to ask, I’m going to ask Ruthie first this time.

Ruthie, would you rather, I think you have already had this one, would you rather age forward or backwards from this point?

Justin Oswald: That’s so easy to answer.

You got to think about it. Oh, my God.

Ruthie Christie: I like, I love childhood, but I would, I think there’s a design and a purpose to the direction in which we age. So I’m going to have to say I’d age forward. I am tending to be a lot more comfortable. I like myself as I’m getting older and you wouldn’t need to

I think Justin has a different perspective. Justin, what are your thoughts?

Justin Oswald: If I could go back 15 years and some be 20. I would crush it with life.

Ruthie Christie: Eventually. You’d be five.

Justin Oswald: Wait, maybe I misunderstood the question. Like maybe it’s like age backwards, like you keep getting younger. That’s not how I heard it. I was thinking like, if you could change that go forward or backward, like I would be, I would go.


for a little while, start over.

Meg Rich: Is, would you rather continue to age as you are? Or would you rather stay start to age backwards?

Justin Oswald: So instead of getting older and you die, you get younger and then are

Ruthie Christie: There was a goosebumps about this.

Justin Oswald: So weird.

Meg Rich: Okay Isn’t that what Benjamin Button is about?

Justin Oswald: I don’t know. That question is weird. That is a weird, strange question.

Ruthie Christie: I pulled it from the Table Topics game so if you’re into weird personal questions.


Justin Oswald: why I was so shocked. I was like, I thought maybe like you go back like go backwards 10 years or something and kind of continue on.

Ruthie Christie: We’re not time hopping!

Justin Oswald: Well, I apologize for my hasty response to your answer.

Ruthie Christie: Would it change your answer?

Justin Oswald: That’s so irrelevant of a question like it doesn’t even, I’m not going to give it a brain time.

Ruthie Christie: The candy question is okay, but this question is absolutely absurd.

Justin Oswald: I’m abstaining from that question.

Meg Rich: Thank you, Ruthie for that. Um, uh, so Justin I just, I love this question. I can’t wait to ask it to you.

If money were no object, what kind of party would you throw?

Justin Oswald: Okay, well, I don’t,  that’s a such a good question. I would have if money were no object, I mean, it would just be fun. Like I would have Def Leppard and Bon Jovi there. To perform for us

I’ve seen Def. I’ve met Def Leppard, I had backstage pass.

Ruthie Christie: What?

Meg Rich: No one likes a gloater.

Justin Oswald: I just had a one up your Bon Jovi sorry. Bon Jovi is awesome though. But, um, I would have, I would just have, like, I would have like people like that, that you, that I admire there, I would have Simon Sinek to give a little talk to my party guests.

Ruthie Christie: I like your party, can I come?

Meg Rich: Who would you invite to your party?

Justin Oswald: Everyone. Money’s no object. It would be like a gigantic venue with hundreds and hundreds of people.

Ruthie Christie: Whould we social distance?

Justin Oswald: Money would be no objects. We would have some kind of ventilation that would suck out the droplets. Yeah,

Meg Rich: you would all, you would get us all hazmat suits.

Justin Oswald: No, no, no, no.

That’s that’s no, that’s not. That’s a party foul. That’s like, there’s nothing party about that. I’m like party on. There’s nothing party about a hazmat suit. I’m trying to get, you know, We’re going to have, then we’re going to have to switch from, you know, Def leopard Mangia. We did some like good late nineties, early two thousands, kinda, you know?

Yeah by Usher. Yeah. Like that, you know what I’m saying? It would just be fun.

Ruthie Christie: Is there a theme?

Justin Oswald: I don’t do themes.

Meg Rich: I almost said the spin doctors and I think that that dates me into it.

Justin Oswald: That does it. Yeah, it does beat you a little bit. Yeah. The spin doctors, we got crazy. This is part of the spin doctors were there.

I’ve never heard that before. Oh my God. But, uh, no, that’s fine.

Ruthie Christie: I like your party.

Justin Oswald: My party would be crazy.

Meg Rich: I’d come to your party.

Justin Oswald: I would probably have an ice sculpture. Of myself.

Meg Rich: That checks

Ruthie Christie: That checks out facts. Yeah. That’s so good.

Justin Oswald: You can keep going. We need to continue without keep thinking of stuff and you let me,

Ruthie Christie: we didn’t even

Justin Oswald: talk about food.

Oh, there’ll be food galore.

Ruthie Christie: Pizza

Justin Oswald: pizza, chicken wings, but then like fancy stuff too. Money’s no object. Remember like, that’d be funny stuff. Everyone could have a servant, you know, Okay.

Ruthie Christie: Where did they come from? They’re not invited to the party.

Justin Oswald: Oh no, they’re working no money. Money’s no object.

Meg Rich: Okay. Now

Ruthie Christie: what’s your wheel of questions.


Justin Oswald: Oh, for yourself?

Meg Rich: Spin my own.

Justin Oswald: Let me ask.

Meg Rich: I’ve answered that one before.

Justin Oswald: It’s supposed to be a wheel. You mean you answered it before? I feel like this thing’s rigged. Okay. Where am I at here?  what are the three most important qualities in friends?

Meg Rich: Mmm. They have to have a sense of humor

Justin Oswald: Good quality,

Meg Rich: because as we’ve determined, I am not funny.

So I really want them to laugh at me. Um, I, uh, loyalty is as a big thing for me. Um, I definitely want them to be loyal. Um, and then I, I want them to have a good heart. Um, because I want them to be as willing, if I say, Hey, I’m going to go volunteer here. I want them to be like, yep, I’m going to come to, um, or I’m helping this person. And they will jump in and say, what can I do here is how I’m going to help as well. So, um, just making sure that, you know, they are ..

Justin Oswald: Funny loyalists who have big hearts.

Ruthie Christie: Yes. Meg we’ll take a servant premiere party. And that will be her best friend

Meg Rich: probably. Now it’s bonus points  if they like the Spin Doctors.

Justin Oswald: Uh,

Ruthie Christie: Oh, that is good. I like that. You said loyalty. Cause earlier we talking about like loyalty’s not for your job. Loyalty is,for your friends. Yeah. Friends and family.

Meg Rich: Yeah. I’m very lucky that I have actually found friends like this. So some of my best friends and my partner is. Very much like that.

Ruthie Christie: They do you exist.

Meg Rich: Yes.

Ruthie Christie: was her man friend. We’ve talked about this.

Meg Rich: He is my man friend.

Um, so, all right. Thank you guys for joining us. This has been, um, more than a professional podcast, obviously, if you’ve made it this far, you know what you’re listening to,

Justin Oswald: if you don’t know, now you know.

Meg Rich: You can, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and. Facebook @morethanayp. Please also remember to subscribe and to rate us. Um, we’d love to have you come join us every week. Um, and who knows if you interact with us on any of our socials, we may actually invite you in to come talk with us. So yeah. Send us some questions.

Justin Oswald: They’re not lame we may talk about them on the podcast.

Meg Rich: Even if they are lame, we may talk about them on the

Justin Oswald: podcast.

That’s true, leave your name. We’ll make fun of you.

Meg Rich: We won’t make fun of you. Please interact with us. Don’t listen, don’t listen to Justin, but I am Meg Rich.

Justin Oswald: I’m Justin

Ruthie Christie: and I’m Ruthie Christie.

Meg Rich: Thanks for joining us. We’ll see you next time. So you guys.